HR Vision Podcast #38 – Tips for successful HR Technology implementations ft. Baqar Iqbal

Ivo:
Hello there. Welcome to episode 37 of the HR Vision Podcast. Today our guest is Baqar Iqbal. Hey Baqar, how are you doing today?

Baqar:
Yes, I'm doing fine. How are you?

Ivo:
I'm doing great. Thank you. Thank you for being here. Baqar moved recently to the Netherlands, but he's joining us today from Pakistan. He's an implementation consultant at FourVision with more than 14 years of experience in human capital management systems. So I'm very happy to be with him today to talk about HR technology and its challenges.

So Baqar, are your ready?

Baqar:
Yes. Thank you so much to having me on this podcast. And I recently moved to the Netherlands, but for this broadcast I'm in Pakistan right now. And about myself: I'm from the administration side. I've done master's degree in business administration and after that introduction, I have been working in and experiencing the HR industry. In the initial stages of my career, I have joined the HR operations side.

So that I could the experience that HR operations inside of any organization. So, this gave me a complete understanding how the manual processes of any HR company works trough the decades outside and spending almost ten years. And I've worke on the all the ERP providers in the market right now. Like I worked on SAP and Oracle. And then we've gone past that five years ago and that and I see this.

Ivo:
All right. Did you pick HR right from the start? Was it always something in your mind or just happened like accidentally or something?

Baqar:
No. This a very interesting question. When I started my MBA. So in the MBA, HR fantasized me very much. OK, so I did a lot of interest in the subjects, but this very connected to the human side and the understanding of the management and about making decision in the company. So especially the HR side attracted me too much.

That's why my understanding was that the rules, according to my career, I realized that I can do good at it. And at that I'm gonna leave for the operations side. So I have pretty much decided in my MBA that after completing my degree I would be joining some kind of HR company to explore things further, how they took the strategic decisions and how they manage their manpower. Something like that. It was not planned and doing the other goal. But the obviously other things also excite me like we have already started the ERP topics as well. But so at that time I just realized that going into HR and ERP side need to yet besides one of the fantasized me so I opted that from the HR side.

Ivo:
OK. And that connection to ERP, the technology also developed during your MBA, or was something like. Once you start learning... or you always like technology and eventually your career moved to that to that side? To the ERP to HCM systems and all and all that. Or it was something like you always had in mind from the MBA from the MBA time maybe.

Baqar:
No, no, from the very start I had the complete understanding that I need to go to the technology side. Although the operational experience also managed directly to understand how to automate the processes and how to help the organization to a deep strategic goals into the company right now. At that point in time when I've started my career there was a gap in the operational goals and the objectives, so that's the technology is the one who bring all together everything of the organization so that they can take maximum output from that. Usually people are doing working on the papers they don't know about the ESS and MSS technology or the HR. They can do anything from the home and they can apply the leave on their cell phones. Something like that. So I opted that I need to contribute something like that to help the organization to automate the processes.

Ivo:
Interesting. So you saw that gap right from the start. That's very interesting to understand.

Baqar:
Somehow, at the last year of my degree program, they give us the opportunity to submit thesis on the current topics you want to do. So that's why when I go to the couple of companies and just realize they don't have any kind of automation into their companies, that's why they are lacking to the decision making systems they are lacking in opting a right solution to their company for their employee. That's why they are pretty much low. It cost to the company as much depending upon. As compared to the technology side, because they have more manpower to handle the employees over here. If you talk about the different organization, like the people said Uber 100 or you can say 50 employees, they must be and couple of HR peoples too. They entertain them into the company. But yeah, going to the technology side, that gap can be minimized and no manpower is needed to perform such kind of a small operation.

Ivo:
Interesting, all right. That's so good setup, let's move into your work as a consultant. Your work throughout your career with the many of the major. I would say, HCM, systems in the market. But looking into the function into be an implementation consultant for HR for HR Systems, what does it mean for you? What do you think are the must haves to be successful in that in that position and what gets you more excited?

Baqar:
Basically there are many reasons that excite me to be very honest. I must say being a HR consultant and tech consultant and providing a solution to the company. First of all, you are not bound to fix yourself in a particular industry. You are not bonding to yourself, any geographical area you have open field to play on. You have to think out of the box to provide solutions to any company, any organization, anywhere in the world. So that's why this concept excites me very much. That's why it's been 15 years. Then stick to this concept of the consultancy. Either ERP is the thing like it could be anything. It could be SAP, it could be Dynamics 365. But The thing is that comes under the ERP umbrella for the HR in the organization to move forward. So that is the thing which excites me very well. I believe consultancy is a continuous process of learning, right. And adapting yourself to achieve goals for the company and for ourselves as well. Because if the customer is going to success is going to implement ERP for the HR ERP. If the client is succeeding in this area, ultimately that success come to the surface. Because we learned a lot as a company we grow as well. We make good clients and this a win win situation from the consulting side.

So that is the main you can say the point where I come to the consulting side and that you have a diversified working area. That is a complete packet. In the project you work on, you will acting as a change agent for the companies and you feel yourself be part of that company as well. Like although we are a consultant and we are working for the code right now but whenever we are doing project to another company, we feel ourselves part of that company as well. So that more excites me to have the complete understanding of the other side of the company.

Although at the same time, the positions demand more sense of responsibility as well. Because people are counting on you in the process of change management. Implementing cloud ERP could be an easy thing for any computer graduate, but proposing a right business model, a write process to any company, it comes under the consultancy. Without having that knowledge, although companies desire too much, things from the system, from the ERP side, but you act as a change agent to them and you can guide them the best possible scenario which they can use for the longer period of time. So for a good consultant you need to think out of the box, approaching problems in an innovative way.

Without thinking out of the box, consultants cannot provide any good solutions. If you following a simple path you cannot do anything well with the consulting side. This will not be beneficial for the company. This will not give you a benefit in the long term; in your professional career as well.

Ivo:
So you need to adapt a little bit to also what the needs are from the clients, right?

Baqar:
Yes. Time to time. You need to improve yourself from the technology perspective and from the HR side. What exactly the world is going to follow. Like in the recent times there are drastic change in the people policies. HR is altogether a different concept of the people in the hybrid scenarios. Policies and manuals are getting more importance in the company. Usually they don't get invested into these kinds of things. So from the consultancy perspective, this whole area of HR can help organization to achieve strategic objectives in their organization. I see, so I must say would hear one thing over here. The name of the game is simplicity. You cannot make things complex to anybody; for yourself and for the other company as well.

And most important you had of the Einstein quote. If you can't explain it simply, you don't understand it well. So first of all, you need to understand that these are the things which need to be clear yourself at the 100% level. After that you can communicate these changes from in a simple manner because, they are the same and they don't know how the ERP works. So being a consultant excites me to give that comfort level to the organization and the people so that they feel more empowered and they feel that yes and the less period of time we can achieve more things in the book. Very interesting. Very interesting.

Ivo:
If I can can kind of recap what you just said you need to be. You need to be approachable. I guess you need to be knowledgeable about the technology but willing also to explain it in a simple manner so everybody or depending on the audience they can also understand what you're saying and and feel empowered by that. And you need to communicate efficiently, right?

Baqar:
Yes.

Ivo:
All right? Now let's go to the problems, to the challenges. Because it's not all, despite what you laid, basically all the key components to be a successful consultant, but every customer is different the size. Different the way they work are different. Cultures are different, so they're always there. Will always be some challenges. I think we we both agree that there's always challenges within an implementation, So what are the common the most common challenges that you that you've seen? And how do you try to overcome them?

Baqar:
Yes, I agree. Every client has a different story and every time we see it face a different problem. For us this a positive thing. To take this challenge as a positive manner and we need to resolve that challenge as well. For me what I have feel like if I talk about among all the challenges which I faced in the past 15 years or 14 years of experience of mine, I'll work on a different projects. I have done almost 10 plus years of implementations in my profile, but what? The specific thing which I have feel that is a challenge for us that is a change management. Basically, when you change management is a thing that people don't understand what exactly the ERP is going to do with them.

Basically they don't even grasp the concept that while we are here and what exactly will be the outcome. So that is the main thing that people were not ready for that particular change into the ERP system in their organization. So that is the main area right? They are reluctant to change themselves according to the new processes. To overcome these challenges, like obviously this everywhere. If you talk about every field, every industry, some people feel reluctant to change themselves, according to the new systems. This the thing.

To overcome these challenges at customer; I must say I really appreciate those customers who hire change management agents in their company. Like the higher training managers they hire senior people so that they can engage their key leaders. They don't want to, they just don't want to quit with the good people into the company just because of this thing. The said they actually act very intelligently.

They hired some people that are good at change management. They provide some sort of understanding to the existing employee that this gonna be help you, nor in a positive way, so people got realized at the end of the day through these sessions and through these people they got realized. Yes, this gonna be a benefit for us at the end of the day. So you need to take this change as a positive note. And same wise we are also working as a change agent for them and we are also helping them to overcome this fear: that after ERP their life gonna be miserable. Nothing like that so we gave them the comfort that we are here to support you and every point in time.

So I think change management is the key challenge we face every time. And the one and most important thing, sometime localizations are also a challenge for us. Like we talked about the localization. My understanding for the localization is like if you move to the UAE side, the Gulf side, they have a different stated law which has already exists in their terms. Yeah they don't need to reinvent the wheel for every company, right?

So before going into that segment you need to prepare yourself accordingly. So localization is also a big challenge. Sometimes they don't give you a complete information. They assume that you are coming prepared at to implement the ERP. So going in a different area in the different countries, being a consultant, this what I have fees and what I have faced this challenge that we need to be prepared well enough to understand the local laws, their local localization of everything, like how the payroll is going to be processed over there. What are the legal requirements for the recruitments and other sort of the things: What expats are getting over there and what the existing the national people are getting benefits over to.

So this this gives the good impression to the client as well, although at the same time this the challenging thing for our server as well. I can't these are the two things I think, but I feel the most challenging in the consulting environment.

Ivo:
Yeah, and like I can't see that change management. We talked a lot about it's a constant challenge for for everyone not only HR technology, exactly like you said the localization is the first time I think we talked about it, so kudos for you for that. Yes no, but just one thing going back to the change management part that I found very interesting that you mentioned that there are some companies that hire change management agents. Right, so so people that actually can support the team from inside to accommodate all the changes that might be in place.

Do you suggest that yourself in some projects where you see there's a room for that? For example, it's a company. Probably you would say. We've a lot more employees, not not a medium sized company, probably an enterprise company. Is that something that crosses your mind to suggest to the key leaders in a project that you know maybe we can act from the outside exchange management agents? But if you have someone from the inside doing that, it's going to improve the project to a successful path. You do that sometimes?

Baqar:
Yes, yes, definitely. After a couple of meetings. To the people that are going to use the ERP and we just analyze that these are not buying the idea of the ERP at initial stages. We recommend these things to the project management and other people as well that you need to have a person on board who can't understand the complete objectives and understand the people logic already working into the company. They need to be on the same page. That's why you're going to have a successful implementation. Otherwise this thing not gonna be successful. Will you be at the very step at the bigger level? Although the management level the higher like we have done a steering committee meetings and these sort of our meetings got the understanding. Either we are going on track or not. What are the obstacles we are facing right now? So in this area or during the periodic meeting we recommend those things that we need to have a one point of person who can address these issues and facilitate them in order to have this change in their working style. And they're all in there of thought process.

Because without that change they cannot adopt this thing because technology sometimes root for anybody. Technology sometimes behave like strange thing to anybody who didn't work any kind of a thing on the mobile thing on the laptop. So if you are convincing anybody that you need to do this from onward, you need to do this on the laptop right now and you need to do this activity from this onwards. That might be a difficulty for him to understand. But internal change agents on the job training special programs for them provide them their understanding. By doing this, the company will be having that particular employee into the company like the that employee which is most important to the company will remain with the company. He will not be thinking that I'll be switching the job or something like that. So in both cases there we are government situation that the key resort will be retained into the company and you will be successfully implementing the ERP.

Ivo:
All right, very nice. moving on. You joined FourVision quite recently. Is this your first? Is this your first experience with the with Microsoft ERP or Microsoft HR? Or did you have that before?

Baqar:
Definitely. As I have before coming to the pool again, in Pakistan and working with the system and method for past three years. So I witnessed lots of projects over here in Pakistan.

Ivo:
So Microsoft HR is not new to you.

Baqar:
No it's not new to me.

Ivo:
All right. No, I'm going to ask that. Because it's, I know that you worked with the major ones so far. We are not here to make a lot of comparisons because we had this discussion many times. Like each system has some kind of purpose. You know some kind of specific audience, but if you would have to, if you'd have to see, like the differences. Where do you think Microsoft sits? You know from SAP or Oracle. In terms of an HR system. Do you think it's comparable? You know, I just added this one. I know that you were not expecting this one, but it's a curveball. Sometimes it happens.

Baqar:
This is the main thing because I've worked on all major HR systems. Everybody asked me the same person that how do you feel about the Microsoft if you compare this with the other ERPs?

Like I said, you cannot compare anything to any system. These are all working on a different modules. They are already working on different approaches. Every company has a different approach related to their product development and I must say over here, I'm not saying that because I'm working right now with the Microsoft. If you look across the board, the cloud computing environment, I think the Microsoft is a pioneer to provide this platform to the companies and to the market. Before that, do you have an on premises solution available like SAP is already providing the on premises solution.

Although they introduced as expected but that didn't even get globally at this point in time. But providing end-to-end solution on the cloud computing system. I guess Microsoft is the one who's providing right now. So this the main thing which I see in a couple of years. You can also relate this thing with the other thing as well. Everything is going on the cloud even though nobody's going maintaining their services, servers. They are not maintaining any kind of a thing on premises. They are all going on the cloud right now. So being a competitive advantage of this thing that the Microsoft introduces thing at the very first time. These are; Microsoft was the one who provides this thing at the very first time.

Other companies follow from Microsoft. Oracle, I don't think they are using any fusion anymore on the cloud side. So I believe all three ERPs have a different flavors. different understanding, different approach. But right now, if you call talk about the whole combo like the full HR capacity to deal with every process in the company and that process on the cloud system at any point, and I think where you can access those information on single click or click of your mobile or any where you can access, there is no need of any kind of a security or something like that.

So this the thing. I guess every system has pros and cons. You cannot compare that. This very good and this very bad. At the end of the day what exactly you are getting from that system is matters a lot. Because if I believe; if you are getting everything from the system in the less price with high efficiency of everything, high transparency of everything, without having kind of a dependency on other people. Like if you need to hire somebody to execute this thing. Microsoft provides us a very good platform that everybody can learn.

This is not like you are implementing this solution to any company will be burdened on them. And sooner or later, providing them a good training on the job, training or any specialized training in a couple of months, I say they'll be trained on them and that ERP will be beneficial to them.

Ivo:
OK. Clear. A couple of more questions. Let's say you know the listeners never experienced an implementation. I'm interested to know how do you go about it. What is the process that you follow to make sure that that implementation is successful?

Baqar:
If you talk about me, basically I categorize this thing in the three parts: like full cycle implementation. There are many key points that influence the success of the ERP implementation right, but if you talk about. But I believe that the one very important thing that need to be followed for any successful ERP implementation is support from the top management. Without management support, you cannot implement any kind of a solution.

Ivo:
You mean from the client side?

Baqar:
Yes, from the client side. Basically these are the points which influence the successful. I'm not say implementing ERP, I'm talking about successfully implementing the HR. After the consultant left the organization, they at least use that system. So for me, the top tier understanding is very much necessary for the implementation because ERP requires support from the top management. This because the implementation on an ERP system includes departments, right?

So organizations; companies will cause a linkage between those departments. If the leadership don't have a vision and they can't communicate the things on the lower level, the ERP is not going to be successful with it. And getting that point at the lower level, their goal should be aligned with the senior management that. For what purpose the ERP is coming into their organization? If they are not following their leadership.

If their leadership is not making any kind of impact on the lower level of the departments level, then no ERP could be a beneficiary for them. Are there could be SAP. It could be a or something like that. So support the top management is very necessary for a successful implementation.

Second thing is that you need to understand the business processes. That is, if you don't have a grip on the existing business processes, you cannot map them onto the ERP. So one should be clear what exactly he is doing in the organization. What are the key areas that need to be automated for them from where he can get the maximum out? So this thing should also be a many dietary for any kind of organization who is going to implement a successful ER.

If you can't explain your process well enough to the consultant, consultant cannot help you to mitigate those areas which you are facing difficulty on those areas. So the second point is that business process understanding is a must over here.

Ivo:
Before you go to the Third Point, do you think the consultant also here can play a role? To help to understand the business processes or that needs to be the client side. Figuring that out by themselves, what do you think?

Baqar:
Yes, I agree. We always act as a change agent for them on the project. But the thing is that at the end of the day user need to buy that idea that the whole process should be in his mind. Otherwise, if we are putting words in his mind that is not gonna benefit for him. If he understands his process from A-Z, then the he can map that process on the ERP and he feel like that.

I guess I'm getting something out of the system, so although if he's going out of the way, if he's doing something wrong which is not internationally practiced, then we intervened and we tell them this not the best practices. This how the people are doing in other organization and other part of the world. So this is totally upon them, they opted or not. But the process understanding how the things are going to be for them. It should be clear to them.

Ivo:
Please continue.

Baqar:
Yes, and the third part is that what I see which is more important for the successful implementation of the ERP, is training. The training part is that like if the company is operating like from 20 years they are working, they don't have any ERP with the system and they have employees who are working from past 20 years with them. And though they don't have any kind of understanding what exactly the ERP is, what is Microsoft? How to log into the system? What are the key areas? So that's where the training parts come in. The company needs to invest in the training as well, although on the job, training is also a thing that company can engage people on. The on job training on the regular basis. But sometimes people invest in employees for the specific or all the advanced training level they send them to the other training institute, they send them to the other universities, or sometimes courses they have offered related to the ERP. Because in the modern world I must say the university is also adopting ERP as a certificate in their degrees.

So they have introduced for the senior executive a couple of months programmed to understand how the ERP works so they can understand. Implement those things with the organization. So I must say training should be an integral part for any successful implementation of the ER.

Ivo:
All right, very insightful. I really like that answer. Alright, let's go to the last one that I have for you. It's just a more of a look. We asked this to a lot of other guests on the podcast is just looking into the future, you know, are there any HR trends that you see? or what do you see in the future of HR technology?

Baqar:
Yes, I see very bright future of HR. I really must say over there because COVID also played a theme portant role over here, right? For the technology people, COVID comes as a blessing is disguise, to be very honest. I'm talking on the positive side right now because everybody is working on a hybrid model. So nobody is coming to the HR, but they are following protocol of the working while working from home. All the things are working on the same pattern. There is nothing changed.

I feel that HR is facing a very tough time right now. Because they need to engage the people with the company. They need to reduce their tension in terms of everything. Like if you say the example of the medical process of any kind of a thing in the company. So through automation you can achieve that nobody can come to the organization and all the process will be going automatically to them, right? So automation is very much necessary forganization and they are opting very well.

Technology companies are working towards the best possible solution to facilitate companies to achieve their goals and cloud solution. I must say over here, cloud solution are most anticipated in the near future. Although local ERPs also working in different part of the countries. But the major companies. Are contributing on the clouds very much as you can see in the Microsoft side, they have introduced standalone application for the EHR. Do you realize that the HR is a very integral part? That's why they introduce a separate application, although they are going to merge that application into the main application, but they realize the need of the EHR. They found that the HR should be there as a main module. They should not be getting neglected in this user of time.

So like I told you before, Dynamics 365 is a pioneer in providing the whole ERP solution on the cloud technology for the consumer side

Ivo:
Yeah. Interesting. Do you think that the cloud might bring some challenges in terms of... it's very rare that they're down, but if they're down there are a lot of companies that don't have access to their data, right? It's always, it's of course. Everything is moving through the cloud. I understand that. But it's also like that big debate of, you know. Physical data or a physical place to host and to save your data and the cloud in a place that you don't know where it is. If it goes down you can lose all your data.

Do you think that's a problem at all? Or do you think the technology is so advanced as it is right now?

Baqar:
It's gonna be hard to go back. So I can understand. At the time of the cloud launch, people have too many questions saying like that, but what will happen with the data secrecy. And all those things. But you are in the right now in 2022, right? So all these things there is nothing like that. There's only one server who's providing you our data, now the company has ever diversify portfolio like they are often different technologies. Like if you talk about the Facebook and if you talk about any kind of tech company in the market who's providing cloud computing?

They are not focusing on the one server right now. They have segregated their areas. If the one system goes down in the parallel, other system will provide you the information. We are in in that much of a technological advancement. There is nothing like that. The only one server will be allocated to you. If this down we cannot do any kind of a thing. Yeah, this nothing like that. Cloud technology evolves time to time. And at this point in time, the cloud technology is more proficient as compared to on premises. On premises has a more disadvantage as compared to cloud. First of all you need to have a more on premises consume more energy. All premises have need to be have maintained more manpower. The more resources required to maintain on premises thing.

So this obsolete now. People are moving towards the canal cloud technology so that they can access their data from anywhere. So I guess this something like that. Although government organizations and the military don't believe on the cloud structure because there are too many high risk information available on that cloud right now. But the thing is that, if we neglect that one person that obviously every military institution or any kind of a strategic government organization don't want to put their information on cloud, they are OK with the on premises thing, but 99% are going on the cloud.

Ivo:
Yeah, definitely.OK. Now I just thought it would be nice to have kind of assurance from an expert such as yourself. All right, I'm going to throw just a last curveball in your direction. It's just to ask you: Why should people invest in HR technology? If they haven't yet.

Baqar:
Yes, I must say, among other departments, HR is the most negative, but not for every organization. You talk about why we invest in that. Basically, this the need of the moment right now. If you don't invest in this area, you cannot come out of these issues of HR and the other things. We will remain into that area where you cannot make any good environment for the company. If you are having 1000 or 2000 employee, and if your turn around time for the thing is to be so three weeks. It ultimately creates a lack of information, lack of communication and decision making in the company right now. So you need a system that will give you efficient results in shorter period of time and this can only be happen adapting new technologies, automating the processes, digitalizing the records without that, if you use the same generic manual people work. Everything gonna be disaster for you in the current in in the current times everybody is born more efficient results in less period of time.

If you want if you want same old school of thought that you are sending an e-mail and after that you're giving approval, something like that. This not gonna help. Any progressive organization cannot afford delays in their processes. Because opportunity comes and goes in a minute. If you don't act accordingly, they are gone. They are gone and most of the companies are already focusing on their HR side. Like they are investing too much on the HR side because they believe if they're providing a good comfort to employees to the organization, ultimately they're gonna be happy and contribute to the company successful accordingly.

If they are not getting their benefits and other sort of thing on time due to some boring processes and the bureaucracy in the company, nobody will appreciate you on this. So right now. I'll give you an example on this: in the past 10 to 20 years, whenever you open a bank account. You think that; you analyze which branch is near about my location? But in the current times, you analyze which bank application is quite efficient to use in that area, right?

Things have been changed. Now our priorities have been changed. Now whenever the employee is going into the company, he see what exactly the process of doing this thing into your company. If somebody says we are still using the paperwork, he said, I think this not suitable for me. As well, because people are going too far ahead of this thing and you are still using the old technology, so this the need of the moment right now. If you can't do this right now, you'll be in a third or second grade in the organization.

Ivo:
Alright, I think that's a great note to end this conversation. Baqar, thank you so much for coming in. I really enjoyed it I hope you did too.

Baqar:
Yes, yes, same here. Thank you so much for having me.

Ivo:
good. Alright Baqar, once again thank you so much. For you out there listening. We'll see you next time.