HR Vision Podcast #41 – Phenom’s Talent Experience Platform ft. Pinar Şardar Yetim

Ivo:
Hello there, welcome to episode 41 of the HR Vision Podcast. For the second time I believe let me say hello to Pinar. How's it going?

Pinar:
Hi, everything is fine. Thank you and it's also a nice to be guest here again.

Ivo:
All right. Thank you for being here. So Pinar is our team lead for talent experiences and today we're going to talk about a talent experience management platform that we implement and support: Phenom. Without any further ado Pinar you ready?

Pinar:
Yeah I'm ready. I'm ready to start.

Ivo:
Let's start then! Let's start from the beginning. Actually, of course, in the first podcast you which produce yourself what you've been doing, but you were hired actually to start the work with these platform with Phenom, was it? The case and what? What were your first impressions of the platform?

Pinar:
Yeah, yeah. It was actually the case. I remember that in 2019 I was having the first conversations with Britt and Bert and we were; they were talking and they were so excited about the platform. Then I started some projects in 2020. Of course pandemic has happened but that was not an excuse for work and just to waiting for the projects. But we got projects so I was the first implementation consultant and I was the first person who actually see the platform get trained and working on the different projects. They remain from the US customers.

So although we are located in Europe mainly our customers was from the US.

Ivo:
OK. So do you remember what were the first impressions that you have when you start working with the tool; with the plan?

Pinar:
Yeah first the training and the training was really really long. So detailed and then you have to. Course get an exam and the exam was also not an easy one. They were asking many many questions and details but I managed so that's also good. But after that, when you get actually the platform and begin to implement, then we were some of course support from the Phenom itself and we have some partner managers were supporting us and showing how to lead the projects.

But again, as the first project you just would like to be everything to be 100% correct and in the place, but the platform was really easy itself. So for you to complete the training and then you go into platform and you just implement the career site, but also the other experiences. So because Phenom offers four different modules, it's one the candle experience that is career site one is recruiter experience. So in the background how the recruiter is working, how they're actually reaching their talent and the other one is. Employee experience so exactly the same format, but for the internal talents and the last one is the analytics.

So I get first introduced with the career site. That's also really fun. You just take all the widgets and try to put the contents there. And so it was my first work mainly on the carrier platform. But then all the projects came and the complexity increased.

Ivo:
Yeah, I can imagine just one more thing. About the you mentioned the training and and how important that is to implement the platform to explain it to customers. Just in a nutshell, like how complex how complex it is. Does any every consultant that we get to your team, they need to go through that training and it goes by each of those phase? I guess that you just explained.

Pinar:
Yeah, so the training. I think it was around more than 30 hours, so it's a really, really detailed one. So you'll learn all the details regarding the platform and for every consultant who would like to be in the team, they actually have to complete that to be certified. That's really important. Before you certified, you cannot actually be on the projects, but after your search part, you still need the shadow some projects, because as always theory is something else, but the practical work is something else.

And then they took us for shadowing some projects. Also myself and then they can learn how you use the other tools that are not part of the theoretical learning and also what they have provided. Also currently they are online. But in my times it was actually actual workshops, so you also finish other courses or how you see how you need to fulfill all the implementation. And these are the trainings that the consultants do but also similar trainings that the customers supposed to complete in order to be certified and also to learn how the platform is working.

Ivo:
OK perfect, that's very clear. So you started as a first implementation consultant. Now you're leading the team. How many consultants do we have in the team?

Pinar:
Yes they're all certified, and they're all now leading some projects, and some of them are more experienced than the others. But we all certified and we already gone through the workshop, so everybody has something different types of the project, so it's not only implementing, but we have also other type of projects that we're working on.

Ivo:
OK, perfect alright, let's go over to the platform itself. So you you already touched on it a bit, but what is Phenom? What does Phenom does as a platform? What are those four stages that they have? And let's start there first.

Pinar:
Yes, Phenom is a whole talent experience platform. So from the first point that that candidate is actually looking for a job, then it's. First, of course, the career site or the other job boards that they are looking for some specific companies, but they all land on the Phenom career Phenom hosted career site, but our clients branding their employer branding. Their colors are there and their mottos.

Everything will be on the career site, so this is the first part. The first module. It includes a career site and it's really customizable. For the content and also for the headers and footers.

The second part, it's the recruiter experience. So what differentiates Phenom from the other platforms and from the ATS as well. So usually those solutions are being used by the recruiters after a candidate applies. So unless you apply it, no recruiters are actually aware of you because they don't know any of the information. For Phenom, then candidate lands on the career site through chatbot through other widgets they can. You can actually share a couple of information and you can say that ohh, I'm looking for a job in the Netherlands and I would like to be an implementation consultant. Then based on these informations and if you share your name or e-mail address then you in the meantime you actually became elite for that recruiter and they will be able to see you on the recruiter on the CRM; on the candidate relation management tool, which is the CRX. And that's actually what differs on the Phenom.

So before, let's say tomorrow I would like to hire A new implementation consultant. Then I can go to my recruiter management module and see OK. Actually there is some girl named Pinar who is really into this role, but only shared some couple of information. And of course it's a GDPR compliance platform, so they gave he or she. Gave her consent to me, therefore I can actually reach her without doing an application, so I know this person is really matches with what I'm looking for, her skills, her background, or at least if I actually left my CV as an open application.

The system can actually sense campaigns, and saying that oh, we are in a in two months. We have an opening. Would you like to update your CV in the system? So that's also possible so it's actually reduces the time that the recruiters are using, so that's all. And also it has other features like scheduling, screening. So if I'm a candidate in the workflow and if I'm on the interview face, then the recruiter actually can send me OK, I would like to make an interview with you. What's your calendar? And without the hassle of. So many emails. Are you available this time? Are you available that time?

This module actually makes it so easy to schedule an interview.

Ivo:
In a nutshell, it seems like it's it helps recruitment to be proactive.

Pinar:
Exactly right. That's so it's actually what. It's also a bit of Phenom terminology. I'm not an active applicant, or I'm not an active lead, but if I'm a passive lead, so if I'm just leaving my CV. Give your information without actually so much thinking about position. Then at that point recruiters can actually pick my name and reach out to me, so that's actually how you said. Yeah, all right all right. The other two things in Phenom is there's something that we work with as well, or we mostly focus on those two parts in this partnership with the CRM. And of course the career website. Hopefully no, because all projects came up with the different needs as all business have different needs.

Some clients would like to only have the career site and together with the RX. But for some clients now they would like to go for whole solutions, including the internal talent, platform and employee experience. It's so similar, but it's only the interface that internal talents are using and last module was the manager experience. It's the part that whole analytics are being collected after you go live.

Since our work is mainly make our customers to go live with the current product. Yeah, we are not really involved on the analytics, but we know all the basics and we actually help customers to just take it through it or hold the module and to give some implications. What type of reports that they can get through their analytics and this is the manager experience. As you can understand they just would like to see KPIs. All the numbers, so not really, not really about a tool that actively recruiters are using as CRM.

Ivo:
OK, that's pretty clear. All right, you've been implementing the platform for some some projects now. Are there any challenges or common challenges you've seen in order to implement the platform as it to do with the customer? Being aware there's a training there to be had? Maybe some challenges with integrations or something? Are there any challenge? Images that you've seen implementing the platform.

Pinar:
Yes, life is not only full of pink roses always and there are. Yeah, every project has its own challenge because every business is coming with a different ask and they would like to see OK with this platform. I would like to achieve this goal. So during our kickoffs we always ask client OK what do you want to achieve at the end of this project? What you would like to see? So what's your actual business goal? And based on that we begin with the project and make sure that we are targeting these parts. But also with every implementation, especially with the net new projects, we just would like to know how what type of tools they are currently using and the Phenom needs to integrate in that part.

We are always getting support from Phenom with the technical solutions manager, but as the project lead and the engagement manager we just would like to be sure that everybody is on the same page and they are providing the type of data that we are asking for and this is. Being answered from the development team. So even if it's a very normal tool, there could be some specifications per customer, and that's our actually challenge to make it aware the development team knows about it and this customization can be deployed in their environment and sometimes clients came up with extra softwares that they would like to implement.

And if you don't know anything about it then we need to go and the discover with Phenom. How can we do it? This is our first time. And then they're helping us, and then we are communicating this client as well. OK, from what you've seen is been a lot of times can overcome those challenges. Phenom can develop those integrations and make them work right. Yeah, exactly, but it's not only from the Phenom side, but also from the ATS or from the other third party solutions needs to be on the same page.

So there are some type of requirements that they need to comply and we just sometimes waiting for the TS or waiting for some business decisions that they need to give us so we are kind of a glue in between different parties. The film team and also the client and also the third party. So this is like I think the challenge that we need to make sure everybody is glued together.

Ivo:
Yeah no I get it. Just another thing on this part of the challenges because I was just thinking when the customer gives you a business goal and you know. Exactly where to go and what to work on. As they learn more while you were implementing the platform and and and and starting working there as they start learning more about the platforms. Does it happen that sometimes in the middle of the project they say actually we want also this and also that's also a challenge sometimes now.

Pinar:
It is absolutely a challenge because in the middle of the project they the customer can come: "Oh actually it will be great if we have this feature." So it means that scope is actually getting bigger and bigger, so we need to see if it's on the discovery phase. So what we called as discovery. We're actually discovering all the data from the client side, and if it's on that phase then actually it's really easy just to see if that feature is also good for them and what we need from them.

And after that, of course there are other discussions that the Phenom account team makes a deal with the clients, and if they come with approval, then we can of course because it's in the middle of the project. This can impact on the timelines, so it's not only always that OK we want this, but OK, you want this. But still we need to make sure that we are meeting with the deadlines or if you really would like to do this then you need to also consider budget and time as well.

So it's also really consulting them. Just what will be the implications and how they would like to roll out the new features. But it's really. It's such an often thing that. They are facing during the projects.

Ivo:
OK, all right. That's interesting. Two last questions. The first one would be abou the implementation itself. Just to get an idea of, you know if a customer looks into this platform, they really like it. They see value there. How does it normally work? Where are the steps for the implementation that you guys take that leads to eventually access successful implementation? What are those steps? If yeah, if I don't know how to implement this tool, tell me how you would go about it.

Pinar:
Yes, first, what we are doing. Actually we are having first internal session between them just to understand the customer and why they choose Phenom and what's actually goals and then we are being in a call with the whole client team. So it's also there. People who decided to go for Phenom but also people who will be in the project team and then we are reviewing the scope of work. So just to make sure that we are on the same page and if anything is missing or if anything they would like to add, it's usually the time that we need to speak well. Of course it's really in the early stage of the implementation project.

Then we took the clients onto Discovery journey so it first starts with the kickoff. So in kickoff we said that, OK, this is your again. Scope so we are implementing this, and these are the steps for the implementation project. So and the step is actually first, we get to kickoff. And then there are a couple of workshops. Based on what's included in the scope, and they are usually career site. So how to design it? What's their strategy and what we need from them?

And later on we need to see actually all the technical integrations. So again, what we need from them, and in that part Phenom Technical Support manager is present there. And also we are expecting their technical team to be present just to make sure that we ask some data and it's available of if they're in challenges on specific part and how we can actually overcome of that situation and after that if everything is in perfect shape. We say OK we are closing the discovery phase and then let us give us some time.

So the Phenom developers are actually building all the integrations with the client system and brand new Phenom platform. Then we are testing. And during the test, our first priority, of course, if the integrations are working, if the main main issues are covered, any box, any issues. And of course everybody would like to have perfect career site, but our priorities first just to see the technical integrations are there. And then again Phenom development team is saying that if you are comfortable with the staging site then we are pushing everything to production.

So This is how the journey and the journey for the timelines. It's really depending on if everybody is submitting their work on the same time and based on that we will share with them the timelines.

Ivo:
Yeah, because that would be my next question. Do we have an average timing like a timeline, how much time it takes?

Pinar:
I guess it depends a lot on on the customer and the availability to fill those steps, right? Yeah, it's really depending on and also this is something that we are talking about on the kickoff and saying that, OK, these are the faces but first discovery phase is really depending on you. Are you fast enough to because your career site or are you fast enough to? Shared data and also from our side? OK, then we are asking the right questions on the right side. So this is the face and in the perfect world it's taking around like four to six months and this and also it really depends on actually the time of the scope of the work.

So if there are not complicated integrations, then of course it's fairly as smooth process compared to the whole module and all integrations with the third party. There are so many variables that we need to look for, but it's really depending on how everything is on the same page or not.

Ivo:
All right, all right last question. I would like to know how much you know you've been working with the platform since 2019 and you mentioned it's been a couple of years. Did you see a lot of changes and you new developments since you started working with it? Did you see some new developments and how much effort do you think Phenom puts in those developments?

Pinar:
so I can say that not some developments, but actually from the user experience on the back end, it's completely changed. It's completely. I knew what I have seen and also what's currently, so Phenom is becoming more and more self-service rather than creating a support ticket and just finding a solution, but it gives more actual authority and autonomy to the customer itself. Just doing some simple changes and every month film is doing a monthly release of the new features. So every month something is changing and when there is a big release, you actually sometimes. I actually forget what will be on the release in this month and then I log in my Phenom account and I said ohh that's changed. Ohh that's a new feature. Oh, that's really nice actually. What we thought of and that's you need to keep up with all the changes and the good thing. Also they are updating their trainings so if something is new just go to the knowledge base, go to the trainings and it will help you. If not then we are supporting our clients and also Phenom is supporting their clients. Where the customer success managers OK as implementation partner.

Ivo:
Do you think they take a lot of feedback that we get from working with clients, working on new features? Do they take that feedback to apply also in those developments? Have you seen that as well?

Pinar:
Yeah, it is. It's because. And it's really interesting. Usually on the discovery calls with as the first sales calls the customer came up with those questions. Because when you actually begin work with the platform itself, you get used to and you are. A little become more blind to the create board spots. Yeah, exactly, but during the sales calls actually clients is coming out. Do you actually have this feature? This could be really beneficial for us and we said well actually it's this could be very good so I'm usually taking up from the sales calls and the demos and later on just mentioning the customer success manager. But also speaking with our partner experiences manager and developers to see if it's on the product or not?

Ivo:
OK, do you have a favorite feature? From the like yeah this this is great. You have one?

Pinar:
Yeah actually I have two, but my favorite one is the automations in CRM so you can actually put an automation. And if I'm a new candidate who subscribe for the GTC Joint Talent Community Forum, you can put on automation and as soon as I submit there there is an e-mail coming to me and I can customize that e-mail. But of course if I would like to submit for a job. Large and after one week there was an automation that recruiter can do and this emails automatically coming to me. I think this is really time saver and you just don't need to think about who is new and who is not.

So just simple automations. it's really nice there you are marketing for recruiters.

Ivo:
Look at that. Exactly, you said in the beginning for members of the team are we looking to expand that team in the next until the end of the year or. Over the next year or what?

Pinar:
Why not? It really depends on the projects that we are getting and currently we are actually feeding all the projects with the consultants, but I think that's also the market is need to respond this question better than me.

Ivo:
Yeah definitely. Good answer. All right Pinar I think we got it all worked out. I hope people enjoyed it and and understood a bit more what what's Pinar does. Thank you so much for your time. I hope you enjoyed it.

Pinar:
Yeah me too. It was always a pleasure so let's see the third time. What will be our topics and what we will be covering? I don't know if you grow more and more in the company, maybe we need to cover other topic who who knows.

Ivo:
Alright, Pinar. Thank you so much for your presence today. People listening out there. Thank you for listening and we'll see you next time.